Reality Church?

The First Stage: We begin going to a church, exciting, thrilling, love Jesus, the church is exciting, all things new.

Second Stage: We begin getting involved, learn behind the scenes things, feel privileged to know the church staff and leaders more personally, we are totally excited.

Third Stage: We see things you start to question, the thrill of the big church meetings wanes, as it seems more and more predictable, the leaders seem more human now and not as special as first.

Fourth Stage: We start to get tired of serving in ministry. It seems routine now and we only see it as fueling the big meeting that we don't really like anymore. The leaders we once were in awe of now seem not only normal, but there is a suspicion of self-serving vs. serving the church in their motives. We lose excitement and wonder if church is even something we should be part of. We grow more disillusioned by the day.

Fifth Stage: Total disillusionment, begin feeling bitter towards church leaders, and wonder why people don’t question things more. We sit in the big meeting and feel very alone. We look at the crowds around us and don't feel like we belong anymore. Is church just a produced big meeting? We are tired and it even angers us to see excited new people joining the church as we now know how it really works and how they too will eventually become tired like we are and see church is a program and organized religion.

Sixth Stage: We silently drop out of church. We read the Bible and early church history and see that they didn't have bigger weekly meetings in the early church. We read "house church" literature and begin thinking this is the real New Testament church. We get excited about really doing church the right way and not the big organized way. We find a few other disillusioned Christians and either form or join some sort of small house church gathering. We want it to be simple and not "organized" or programmed or big, but pure like the early church. Everyone all sharing together, true community will happen here, unlike the bigger programmed meetings.

Seventh Stage: Fairly quickly, we realize it isn't too easy leading people. Even in a small house church. People don't show up, or you have people dominating conversations. There is the same bickering, some gossip, people whispering to others that they are not happy with how the meeting went etc. We sometimes try to sing worship songs with ten people and it feels very odd. So you don't try to sing anymore, but do secretly miss the corporate singing that happens in a larger group. Eventually we find the same disappointments in the smaller house church that we did in the bigger programmed church, but at a different level. We get even more disillusioned, as we realize that even the key leaders (including ourselves) and the people of the house church are just as messed up as the big church leaders and people in those churches.

We also feel subtly uncomfortable that the house church feels a bit inward focused. It would be weird to have non-Christians break up the intimate dialog and prayer we have taken such a long time to establish together. But we know something has to be done, as we keep thinking about those who don't know Jesus and that our house church might not be the best place to invite them. Plus dealing with little kids running around every week during your meeting certainly limits your full engagement into the Bible discussion. We get more disheartened as our 4 year old knocks the entire strawberry shortcake dessert onto the kitchen floor as he was trying to get at it early before it is served at the house church.

Eighth Stage: We stop going to any church of any kind. We forget it all. Watch a lot of TV. Play video games. We go see the Dukes of Hazzard movie.

Ninth Stage: We begin missing other Christians, and regular fellowship. We do some introspection and eventually deal with the disappointments and high expectations that we had. We begin a new level of maturity and thinking about the church and church leaders.

We start thinking about our options. We don't want to go to a preaching-driven church that just has everything revolve around the senior pastor or the preacher, as that subtly creates passive spectators who depend on the preacher to "feed" them weekly - rather than maturing as Christians whom should primarily be "feeding" ourselves (since we aren't infants anymore). We don't want to go to a hyper-Reformed church where we feel guilty all the time and get caught up in the everybody else is worldy and wrong but us mentality. We don't feel good about the seeker-type of churches where everyone is so happy, the music is hyper-cheery and we fill in the blanks in the notes they give out. That excites us for a little while, when we fill in the blanks, because it feels like you are really learning. But after a while we see the stack thickening in our Bibles that we stuff them in and realize that we have never even looked at them since we filled them in. We look at our notes that we filled the blanks in on, and can't remember a single thing from these sermons, even the one from two weeks ago.

Tenth Stage:  So, we slowly go back to our original church that we at first felt good in because of the overall vision and mission that drew us to it in the first place. We find that the leaders do admit freely to you there are weaknesses and flaws and mess ups and ego issues, but still try their best to blend both the bigger meetings and smaller home meetings for the purpose of the mission. They try to be organized, without being "Organized".

It's not perfect, but we begin to enjoy and even more appreciate the benefits and momentum of the church. But now we get involved with more realistic expectations of what church is and understand the leaders are just like us, trying their best to serve Jesus. We become happy again with a balanced life and imperfect church family all serving on a mission together.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Due to the rather large amount of emails I am getting from people about this post and asking questions - I wanted to say this is not an entirely real situation, but one made up from lots of different experiences and stories. Nor do I think everyone has to go through all these stages. Nor do I think everyone always ends up back at their original church. Sadly, some churches should never be returned to!

I am just thinking of the churches that people leave that really are OK, and just trying their best and making some mistakes along the way. Pondering some of the unrealistic expectations we make sometimes of church and church leaders. I'm glad it is stirring up some thinking and from the emails, sure seems like a lot of people have personally experienced some of these stages.    - Dan

Comments

[Jeb Simons]

I'm not sure what the hold-up is... maybe they have re-thought their stance on how this is going to actually make the company any money. Or perhaps their lawyers pointed out the liability of providing agents a platform to stick their feet in their mouth. Whatever it is, it's hardly something I'd claim as being "Well done".
www.jebshouse.com

[Aaron L]

Hey Dan, GREAT POST!

I love how easy it is to spot the HYPER-REFORMED in the comment section. Nothing incredibly off in your theology guys, but your attitudes only reinforce Dan's comment.

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[Bill]

Just to add to the post I wrote a few minutes ago.

With regard to hyper reformed churches making us feel guilty all the time, we we as christians need to be called to repentance from our sins. Reformed and puritan theology got that one right, a faith that does not produce fruit is a dead faith, it's not a saving faith. The real test of our faith is the works it produces, and this is true from Augustine to Calvin to Wesley. It's biblical teaching.

Telling believers that no matter what they do they are saved is unbiblical. So called carnal christians, as the Scofield bible calls them, will not see the kingdom of heaven. And it has to be preached to them. Romans 8 and Galatians 5 are clear that the carnally minded or those that live in the flesh will perish eternally. Sadly too many churches preach that there will be carnal christians (christians that behave exactly the same as the unbelieving world) in heaven. This is a lie from Satan that needs to be preached, and if reformed churches make people feel guilty by preaching the truth of the gospel, the problem is with the people and not with the gospel.

[Bill]

Dan,

Very good post as far as people having to high expectations of a church and then being disappointed.

A couple of comments that I want to add:

1) I think the lack of participation in the church meeting is critical. A lot of people will never go back to a church where they are not allowed to speak during service. At christian brethren services or house churches believers share in the service and are allowed to speak. It has to be done in an orderly manner like Paul mentions in his letter to the Corinthians, but this is the biblical model for a church service. I'd love the emerging church to move in that direction more, where believers are not mere spectators on the service.

2) I've got a bit of a problem with your comment on a "hyper-Reformed church where we feel guilty all the time and get caught up in the everybody else is worldy and wrong but us mentality". Although reformed churches have problems of their own, their view that christians have to be different from the world is not one of them. We must be missional and reach out, but friendship with the world and love of the world is unbiblical. Christians are called to be separate and different from the world, call the world to repentance from their sins towards God and forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ.

[john smith]

So you got heat...and back pedaled. Oprah would be proud, not Jesus.

Edit/censor much?

[John Smith]

It's Ok Dan....you wrote what you wrote...you got heat...you said it wasn't real. If only Christ did that...............?

[male medical exam]

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[Jon]

I think there is lot of truth in Dan's post at least as I look at my own life. I find myself getting easily annoyed by my church and the leadership. Every few months I get to the point where I feel as if I need time away from church, but when I am not there I feel an even greater pain and emptiness. I think slowly I am learning to accept the church as far from perfect and being ok with that, though it is a struggle. This post helped remind me to be honest of where I'm at and to persevere.

[allan]

Very interesting, thought provoking post...

[stage 8]

I'm still in stage 8 and happy as (you know what)!

[lisa]

I realize this is an old post, but it hits home. been through the stages within the past year, and regretably I don't think we skipped any. didn't go back to the original church, but went on to an new place... and now, it almost feels like the stages have started again... thanks for the post.

[david]

If you don't belive then why do care?

[Andrea Merli]

Hi Dan,
thank you for what you wrote on this post. It is so refreshing to know that you are not crazy or bad when you are experiencing disappointment from the church and you learn that your expectation need to be on Jesus and the relationship you have with your christian family, rather than on church structures, plans, strategies that often are the priority instead of fresh christian everyday mission. I also recently read and liked very much your book Emerging worship and I was amazed to find out that what I'm meditating here in Italy is so near to what you have shared in your book!! Thank you, I think that's the right way to follow if we want the church to be relevant and fresh TODAY!! One last things, I would like to translate in italian and post in my worship-blog this same post you wrote, obviously by quoting you as author. Can you tell me if you gime me permission to post this article in italian (faces icons included?) Thanks
Andrea

[Lars Rood]

Wow- The stages rocked me today as I read through them. I think I'm near the bottom.

[Jon Havens]

I'm in between stage 5 and 6 and hope to skip the next few and just hang out around 9 for a while and try to elaborate on that a bit. I'll never go to stage 10 and I'm not a big fan of stage 7. I really enjoy this perception on how we treat the church.

[Herobill]

Dear Dan: I've been at Stage Seven for almost Ten Years. The only thing that keeps us "IN" is being part of a group that continues to move towards Him together and steps past all the rest of the stuff that happens. And believe me, in close community for 10 years, I've seen a lot of stuff happen!!

The only hope for a house church is Jesus. It's sad to think how hard it is for christians to come together just for Him. Where are the men with the experience, time and availability to come and teach us how to do find him together?

So far, I consider myself very blessed indeed. Not super-christian, super-spiritual. Just very fortunate. Praise the Lord.

I think "Stage Seven" is the best it can get... but I'd take Stage One all my life, if I was continually finding the Lord with other christians. (Darn that Stage Two!!!) ;)

[Michelle]

I have to admit, I've been through the stages, and am in one right now. Rebellion rose up within me, and just because I felt criticized and made fun of, I wanted to say, "I'll never go back to my first church!" Which I probably won't, but I also won't quit the church I am in. I am realizing in the church I am currently in that no church is perfect, and I'm not going to leave this one.....but learn to grow right where I am. I know it's where I am supposed to be. I know I left the other church out of rebellion and bitterness, and that was wrong. There are flaws in the church I am currently in, but this church has been an incredible blessing to me at the same time. I see both "church sides" biting each other, and we church goers are in the middle of it all. "They're not cool enough because they don't listen to cool music, go to the movies, wear swimsuits and cool clothes like we do. The world can't relate to them because they are so odd." Then...."They're too worldly, they don't wear the right clothes, they listen to icky music, they do everything the world does..." Etc.
I'm thinking of the verse in Galations about biting and devouring. The church camps are fighting against each other and both sides have forgotten that they are serving the same Lord!!!!

[Mark Hsi]

Hi Dan,

Thank you for your contribution to the ongoing discussions about the emerging church.

As I read your comments to responses to your post, I think you are dead on in regards to emphasizing the missional aspect of house church as a necessity for considering house church in America as a legitmate 'emerging wineskin.'

I recently transitioned our traditional church into a house church setting. It has been five months and we have birthed two from our six. We hope to have two more by the end of the year.

Here is an update from a recent house church plant. Enjoy!

We had such an AWESOME house church! God met us so powerfully! We did not even invite our neighbors yet - we were going to take the first three weeks to just worship and pray and seek God. But they heard us worshipping last week and said "Why didn't you tell us you were starting house church? That's what we have been waiting for! We'll be there next week!" So ready or not - here they come! So our neighbor Cassandra had her mom Brenda in town. Brenda is a spirit filled tongue talking wild warrior woman of God! She just came alongside Spencer and I and ministered right with us! It was so awesome! Our neighbor Michele came. She is in a very broken place with her marriage. Denise came and of course she is in a very broken place because of her situation with Paul and Kristin and the baby.

It is so exciting to think that 12 people who otherwise would not have gone to church came to our home today for church!

So we began our time with fast worship and ribbon sticks and all the instruments for the kids. They loved it. We had lots of movement and color and noise!

Then I felt led to have Hadley do a prophetic act for Denise - to dance a worship dance for her as God spoke hope over her. It was so powerful and so anointed! Everyone was very moved and blessed.

Then I took the kids outside and we did a lesson - the "Wordless Book" where you use the 5 colors to tell the gospel story. They made bead bracelets and were able to repeat the story back to me.

Then I brought the kids inside and we made breakfast - homemade waffles and the works. The adults kept meeting in the living room. Spencer had copied a chapter out of the 40 Days of Purpose and taught from that. They were engaged in a fiery discussion! After I fed all the kids I joined the adults. It was a powerful conversation about God meeting you in broken places and restoring the years the locusts have eaten and how do you submit in a marriage where the husband is not a believer. Brenda has an amazing story of restoration of her life and marriage and she ministered powerfully to Michele and Denise. It was so sovereign that she came! We prayed over them and the Holy Spirit met them powerfully.

Michele was supposed to go to a party at which the neighbors from the whole strip were already at. She came over at 10am when we began and said she would have to leave at 10:40am for the party. She didn't leave until 1:30pm! She and Denny are in a hard place and she was worried about him being angry at her for coming to the party so late. She said she just felt like God wanted her to be here and she was supposed to stay - so she did! We confirmed to her that God had something to give her and when we prayed over her she felt she received something. Denny called several times during church and talked to his daughters and he was very angry that they were not at the party yet. We prayed when she left that he would not be angry - that God would calm the storm. So she left and when she got to the party she called back and said "I told him that I was staying to pray about the poor way I have been behaving in our marriage lately" and he was fine with that! He said "Oh, that sounds good then."

The cool thing is that most of our neighbors that we want to outreach to - they were at this party! So it made a huge statement that Michele was at our housechurch instead of going to the party! They will all know and see that she chose to go to church and be ministered too rather than go and party. They have been planning this party for one of their daughters who turned 30 - and it was a big deal. They were all asking where she was. Interesting timing for God to have us start our house church and have them plan this party at another home. I have always felt that Michele is a key to reaching the rest of our neighbors in our strip.

Another really awesome thing is that Brenda came - Cassandra's mom. We have been ministering to Cassandra. Her mom stayed after everyone left and she shared Cassandra's story with us and gave us total insight into her life and heart and how to minister to her. How awesome is that? Cassandra came to the Lord 10 years ago but walked away almost immediately a year later because of junk happening in the church. Her mom has prayed fervently for her and believes that God placed Cassandra right across from us on purpose! Her daughter Kili is just 6 months older than Essie and they are best friends. I believe God has sown their hearts so that we can be connected to Cassandra. When Kili came Essie ran and hugged her and said "I love you Kili!" and it melted Cassandra's heart.

[l. koons]

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[Messy Christian]

LOL, I'm now in stage six, though I skipped seven and went from eight to ten. ;) But I didn't go back to my old church, the church I first had my faith. I think I'd be insane to after what I've been through there.

[Dayn Mansfield]

Dan,

Nice to see a website about you! I miss your hair.

Are we not all tired yet of these conversations? This is just phase____ of deconstructionism and it's old now. Really.

The answer is the same one we have been looking for for centuries: intimate relationship with Jesus in the midst of people who aren't full of crap. None of those relationships are likely to happen within "church" as its become, but why not do what you can to be THE CHURCH wherever you find yourself?

Disillusionment happens and then we should get over it. We must, at some point, "do what it says" without becoming victims of the disobedient. When will we finally find our identity in Jesus and resolve to follow Him - even to death?

There are so many valid expressions of faith and worship available why feel bad about not fitting into that weird thing we call "church"?

Dayn

[Dan]

Hi bob -

i think i both agree and disagree with your latest post. i agree with how you wrapped it up in saying Brother XXXX offers people Jesus and nothing else - and if people are coming for others reasons, they will then leave. But we are getting away from what inspired me to even write the post. I think we just have to admit even with Pastor XXXX who is offering them "Jesus and nothing else" (as you put it) and then people leave, he has flaws and is a fallen human being and there might be reasons people leave that aren't due to him offering Jesus and nothing else. Church (the people) is messy, even with those who "offer Jesus and nothing else". House churches, big churches, medium size churches, are all messy. You only have to read the New Testament to see that the church was messy. So, i was just trying to say that people often think the grass is greener elsewhere, when the grass next door just has another kind of weed. We are all messy. I am rambling..... not sure if this makes sense. But that is all I was saying.

[Bob]

I guess here's my point and how it ties into this post (and my original comment here somewhere around #25). Your 10 stages indicate that you see no difference between Christianity and church-ianity. That Christian life cannot exist apart from Sunday services, a pastor, programs, and "trying to serve Jesus"--however imperfect they may be. Everyone who becomes disillusioned with church-ianity will eventually come back because they were just disillusioned in the first place. Because church is all there is.

Don't get me wrong. The church is the Body of Christ--He establishes it and He builds it. It is the pure, spotless Bride. It builds me up as a Christian in prayer, teaching, and fellowship just as I try to build my brothers and sisters up.

But like my first post, after stage 7, what if your person discovered the person Jesus--I mean met Him like you'd meet a person on the street--and He truly transformed them? You wouldn't go back and see that your leaders weren't so bad, that you could get along in an imperfect system (I'll call this settling for less). You'd have found Him and His Kingdom where the things we think and know don't apply anymore. (I'll call this life to the full.) Maybe you'd go back to church but you'd be "different". Church-ianity, with its worries, would seem silly compared to Christianity and its Way.

Brother XXXXX understands this.

But why is his church losing members? Because Jesus isn't a guest speaker you can bring in. He won't appear in a drama or a video. He appears only to those who earnestly seek Him. Brother XXXX can't manufacture this in people and he has learned not to try.

He loses people because people don't want to try. Instead, they want to be fed. They want a checklist of things they can do. They want to be "productive", see the fruits of "serving Jesus"--more disiples, bigger crowds, bigger buildings. Brother XXXXX doesn't offer that. He offers them Jesus and nothing else--because that's all there is.

[Dan]

Hi again...

I can't answer that question about Brother XXXX. It all depends on the situation, the church history, the leader etc. and what God is doing in that specific church at that specific time. Churches lose numbers of course, and that doesn't mean it is failing in God's sight and I never indicated that.

However, if Brother XXXX is losing 35 people every 3 years from people just leaving his church (not from dying, or moving away etc.) and that continues, Brother XXXX won't have a church to pastor eventually.

Anyway, I can't answer the question because there are so many things to consider in any situation about church health. This whole discussion is off the point of what I was writing about in the post here too. But it is interesting of course to think about and recognize.

thanks for your comments!

[Bob]

Dan,

So you're saying healthy things grow. Growth is numeric and is expected within "several years".
A healthy church will grow.

But getting back to my question: Can you fathom anything we could learn from Brother XXXX?

[Rich]

Dan,

I read the ten stages, which you explain as a composite of experiences and stories taken from various individuals. I also scanned the posts that followed. In my opinion, most people who define their faith as being “Christian” are not aware of the extent to which traditions of men influence our thinking. (I include myself.) Many things contribute to how we view religion, how we express our faith, and how we respond to “church” problems. Near the top of this list is prejudicial thinking that frequently exerts its control on how we interpret Scripture.

What I would like to put to those who read this and respectfully invite them to examine is that we cannot trace the many concepts people have of “church” to Jesus and his apostles. Some of the issues touched on in the ten stages you describe exist because of misconceptions people have rather than what the Scriptures actually say.

[Dan]

Hi Bob!

Thanks for the comments. but..I think you missed the heart of what I was asking about. What I asked about, is whether or not we see house churches actually launch new house churches. The reason I asked, is that so many house churches remain ingrown and evangelism is almost non-existant in terms of actually seeing any reproduction. So, i wasn't asking about growing "numbers" for mumbers sake like you seem to indicate. But I was specifically asking for a sign of fruit in multiplication of house churches. If there is true healthy growth in a house church, then there should be multiplication of house churches at some point. Especially if they have existed for several years. That's all I was asking about - and I do think that Jesus would be asking "have you been my witnesses to others?" "have you been making disciples?"... and if a church makes disciples, then that means NEW disciples being made, thus the need to multiply house churches since one house church can only hold a small amount of people so they would have to birth another. That's what I meant.

[Bob]

Dan,

I wince when you start asking questions about "results"--how have you grown? how many churches have you planted? new leaders trained? etc.

I have this picture of you standing next to Abraham after he received his promise asking "So, where you gonna put all those sons? How many so far? What? Sarah isn't even pregnant?! Maybe you should think about her maidservant, Hagar...after all it's been 10 years."

I have a friend who jokes that he'd just once want to go to a seminar where a speaker was introduced with "Please welcome brother XXXXX, over the past 3 years his congregation has gone from 100 to 65 (...and he may be losing a couple of those). Brother, what do you have to share with us?"

Somewhere along the way we've equated building additions, book deals, exponential membership growth with success in God's eyes.

What do you think Brother XXXX would have to share? Anything?

[Bill]

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. I agree, INGROWN IS NOT GOOD!

We have been at this for 10 months. We have two gatherings and we are constantly reaching out to non-believers. We are ministering to single mom's / dad's, drug addicts, normal people, and low income kids. We have yet to see much fruit from the labor, however my coach and mentor has cautioned me not to look for fruit right away. Just continue ministering to people as Jesus would have us do. His experience has been that a true "outreach" house church takes anywhere from 3-5 years to establish. Most people give up within 2 years and fail to see the fruit of their labor.

I encourage you to check out this house church leader/coach/mentor. He did the 60/70's thing with house churches. He understands your concerns. He has now planted 32+ house churches/networks focused on non-believers. He is my coach, mentor, and friend. You might want to talk to him about your methods and some of the pitfalls from the past. If you are serious about doing that type of transition, you may want to chat with him.

Harold Behr
haroldbehr@gmail.com
www.simplechurches.net
http://simplechurch.blogspot.com/

I find his experience and focus of reaching out to the lost a refreshing voice in a sea of "seminars" and "books".

By the way, the book by James Rutz "Mega Shift" is a new book. (2005) His "Open Church" book was the one from about 10 years ago. I encourage you to take another gander at "Mega Shift".

He has a great section in there on helping churches do the Open Church/House Church transition.

Give Harold a call or email. He is coming down the coast in a couple of days, maybe you could have coffee with him.

if you are ever near Paso Robles...Let's do coffee!

Blessings!

[Dan]

Hi Bill!

No, we aren't losing anyone to house churches (at least to my knowledge).

In fact, as a church we are trying to create house churches, but without the normal ingrown nature most seem to have. I believe that vintage Christianity is lived out in smaller communities, not a bigger meeting. We are trying to establish both.

I know they must be out there, but I have yet to hear of house churches who grow by non-believers, and keep launching new house churches at a regular rate. When I ask house church leaders, especially churches who have been in existence a long time - I don't hear any who have seen much conversion growth and launching new ones, but they remain a happy inward focused Christian community. Maybe they participate in community service projects, but that isn't what I am talking about here.

Anyway, I would love to hear examples that are evangelistic and seeing multiplication and fruit. How is it going with you and your house church?

I have read the Rutz book, I think about 10 years ago now. I subscribe to the House 2 House magazine and read most books on house churches, so I am familiar with a lot of the things happening.

Dan

[Bill]

Sounds like you might be loosing some of your members to house churches. Otherwise, I am not so sure why you are so down on another method to reach people for Jesus Christ. I would encourage you to bless them as they go. Why not bless the multiplication of fellowships dedicated to reaching others for Christ?

Have you read the book, Mega Shift by James Rutz? This is not an American thing... this is a worldwide thing. I have spoken to a number of missionary leaders and they agree that God is doing something apart from the "American/European" way of church.

I am not "dissalusioned" with the traditional church. I lived it, supported it, made my living at it, and grew through it. However, I recieved a very clear vision from the Lord to do simple church/house church/redemptive fellowships. I would rather obey God than obey tradition. I believe in the miraculous. Jesus still leads others to do "other" things than what is traditional or "emergent".

Great book to read... The School of Christ by T. Austin Sparks. He states in the book a great quote. "Jesus thinks other than the way we think!"

I remember a story in scripture about some disciples looking over Jordan and criticizing other people for baptizing. I guess it was a waste of their time to even worry about it.

Let's work together in the vineyard and in the end, let's all cast our crowns at His feet. Some sow, water, fertilize, and reap. Who cares, get back to work!

Blessings!

[Carol]

Interesting. I'm still mulling this o.ne over. I seem to have been stuck in State Two for the past 13 years.

I'd love to see "Ten Stages of Blogging." Something tells me I've skipped the first few there.

[Kevin]

I guess that I would fall into the Sixth Stage. I have to admit that your stages of "Reality Church?" have some truth to them, yet at the same time they remind me of the Exodus and the several laps around the desert needed to weed out the rebellion and desire to return to bondage in Egypt.

Thanks Dan for the reality check, we need to see the Bride of Christ through his eyes and know that we all are his beloved no matter how we gather!

Check out my blog about my journey so far...

How I Ended Up In A House Church

Kevin
www.hippiechristian.blogspot.com
www.geocities.com/gathered_in_his_name

[Zane Anderson]

Shame on the house churches which have no outreach and have become ingrown. I discourage the likes of that but see it less and less. God be thanked.

I know the answer is likely a NO but are you through with that rare hollow bodied electric guitar?

[kbartha]

I've read this a dozen times and think it would make a good book.

I got some cranky e-mails from my hyperbolic comment above. That's the thing about trying to be pithy...sometimes it doesn't come across right.

What I was getting at was: take these ten phases, add a couple of theological ones about exile, self-discipline and hope; salt and pepper a few personal experiences; add some good research about the grief cycle; introduce some sobering reflections from the church of the two-thirds world (i.e. Underground Church in China, Rwanda, Jesus in the Middle East); and you would have a best seller.

The Western Church is in this exilic cycle for a reason - a God reason. We are torn between despair and hope; rejection, abandonment and love...and yet there's faith to believe the one who is faithful to HIS people. I see Him in my house church every week.

I think Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah, Esther, and Daniel (among others) understand this cycle completely....

Return from exile makes the tears of Psalm 126 so precious.

[Butter Finger]

If individual Christians would focus on pleasing and bringing glory to God by loving and serving others, we wouldn't be so consumed by our wants and needs. We'd be too busy and too content.

[Steve]

Oh yes, I have been through all of these stages. This post most definitely hits the nail on the head. I know that we need to have the corporate, organized church and at the same time we need the intimacy of the house church. For me that is where a strong "small groups ministry" is soooo very important. Strong relationships will never be developed by just meeting together on Sunday morning.

[Joel]

Thanks Dan, thought-provoking post! It's interesting that we've been preaching the same message over and over for 2,000 years. Unity. Love. Acceptance. The Body without Schism. I guess that's because we're human. We've not yet arrived. There's a true beauty in the persuit of this fellowship.

[Chuck]

I think this is a brilliant post. You are saying something that is so incredibly true.

[Jonathan Grubbs]

I guess if I have to pick one, then I am in Stage 6. My beliefs, theology and convictions have been challenged and shaken up in the last year since I stepped down as the youth pastor of the small church I had been attending for five years. God has been teaching me about the NT principle of "Simple Church" during this past year. Thank you for this great thought provoking post!

[Trevor Clark]

Great discussion on the journey many people are in right now. The numerous comments here obviously strike a cord with many personal stories...
My love for the Bride of Christ and for those in this process ache and I too ask the question Friar Tuck shares: how do we walk alongside people in this process?

[kbartha]

round it off to twelve: Smelling Awful...and Spiritual Enema need to be there somewhere.

Reminds me of Isaiah 26, where the people are writhing around in pain thinking their about to give birth and all they have is bad gas.

People in these cycles need to hear that they smell bad and need a flush. Put them all on a plane and give them a dose of the Church in the two-thirds world.

"And you can't come back until you smell like a refugee and eat nothing but manna and quail."

[Thomas Ham]

This was a great post. I've always imagined those steps in my mind, but never had them laid out or numbered. It's got a flare and a wit to it as well. Well written and enjoyable.

[Are Karlsen]

I think few christians are prepared for life in a house church. The main reason goes about values. I think this sentence in the seventh stage explain it all: "Fairly quickly, we realize it isn't too easy leading people. Even in a small house church." Leading people. If the house church is based upon a "leader - led" model of the traditional church, it will certainly have problems, - the same problems most of the cell groups in traditional churches have.

[steverup]

from www.watchman.net

"I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us" (III John 9).

How do we know if a particular work is the true building of God, part of the genuine Church? All we have to do is see who has the preeminence there. If an apostle or pastor is considered the spiritual head then Christ does not have the preeminence. If the elected deacons / elders are in charge then Christ does not have the preeminence.

We may give Him lip service and acknowledge with our mouth that it is His Church, but apart from revelation these are empty words. When the moment of truth comes man will always seize control, demonstrating that Christ does not have the preeminence there, and indeed, probably never had it to begin with.

[Dan]

hey again pauly -

for those interested, since this point was raised - can you describe a bit about your house church? over the 14 years you have been in existence, how many other house churches have you launched in your town, how are they doing, have they launched new ones in your town etc.

because the main concern i raise is not hearing about evangelism actually occuring and house churches in a local town multiplying and launching others in that town. thanks!

dan

[Pauly]

Dan:
We're 14 years old. And yes, we have also established a "network" of house churches that is dedicated to establishing and training people for leadership. I've posted several things about home churches in my blog. There is a national conference of house churches coming up on Labor Day. You can find the information at www.house2house.tv/. We're not just a Kumbaya group anymore.:)

[Dan]

hi pauly!

my main question with going specifically to a single house church approach - is in terms of evangelism and continued growth. I have talked to a lot of people in various house churches, and in every single case, at least in the ones i have talked to, they pretty much stay the same size, don't launch news ones, remain pretty inward grown etc.

They do wonderful things as you are saying yours does - but don't see multiplication of new churches and new people coming to know Jesus. That seems to be the New Testament model of multiplying house churches and why the church grew (of course by the Spirit).

There are some house church networks I find fascinating, such as Apex in Las Vegas, as by being networked allows a centralized training, coming all together sometimes, and continued growth and multiplication in a healthy way. I don't know your situation there - so maybe you are seeing your house church multiply and launch new ones, especially being 6 years old. Just some thoughts! We are actually trying to establish both in what we are experimenting with here, but that's a long story....

dan