Hope, depression, hope.

                                                               

I know for a fact that there are wonderful, wonderful things that God is doing through the church at large. The Spirit of God is moving in churches and lives are being changed, marriages helped out, and people are learning what it means to walk in the ways of Jesus. Poverty and AIDS are now being addressed as the church is awakening to the biblical mandate to be helping the needy and taking stands for justice locally and globally. So there is so much good happening and this gives me such great hope.

I am aware of the good things happening, being a Christian and as someone in church leadership who gets to see this and hear about what churches all across the country are doing.

At the same time, there is a growing amount of people outside of the church who don't hear about all the good the church is doing. I know some say this shouldn't be a concern, as Christianity is doing fine in America since the percentage of people in churches is remaining relatively the same. But to me, the bigger picture is not being thought of.

This past week, I was with a professor who is a sociologist and who studies and writes about church leadership and growth issues. He shared that the reason church statistics regarding attendance may be staying around the same level is because those in the churches are living longer. There are now a ton of old churches with elderly folks living longer which keeps that statistic up. He also shared how the already Christians in churches who have babies also keeps the percentage leveled out.

What isn't happening however, is the growth of the church from people outside the church coming in. We aren't keeping up on the population growth at large. I was reading that the church has leveled out in attendance over the past 15 years but at the same time our national population has grown by around 50 million people. So we can celebrate that churches are remaining relatively the same attendance-wise, but now there are more than 50 million people who aren't part of the church. I know statistics are hard to trust, but I have heard this enough from a variety of different sources so it probably is something likely to be true.

The other thing brought to my attention is that as we see the growing megachurch, when looked at closer, many of them (but not all) are growing primarily from transfer growth from other churches. When a church has a dynamic communicator, or good band or children's ministry etc. people will then switch from other churches. Or in larger churches you hear of who have a lot of younger people in them, when you explore them there usually is a nearby Christian college or university and because of the dynamic communicator or music, the church draws in masses of Christian students from the local Christian college.The sociologist made another interesting observation when he shared that when examined many suburban conservative megachurches who grow, do so from those with a Catholic church background.

So with all that - I keep finding myself fascinated with how Christians and the church come across and are known to the increasing amount of people who are now outside the church. Of course, it has been on my mind writing the They Like Jesus but not the Church book and currently wrapping up the writing of the follow up one to that. But for example:

- I walked into our local bookstore 2 weeks ago and there is a display set up with new books as the central part of the entry area. On the very top of the display, highlighted the most on the display and the book which got the primary focal attention was the book "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. Sam is the one who wrote "End of Faith" which was a NY Times bestseller and it basically stated all religion of any kind is a bad thing as it contributes to violence, wars etc.  This book was a follow up to that. I opened it in the book store to read why he wrote this follow up book. He said:

"Thousands of people have written to tell me that I am wrong not to believe in God. The most hostile of these communications have come from Christians. This is ironic, as Christians generally imagine that no faith imparts the virtues of love and forgiveness more effectively than their own. The truth is that many who claim to be transformed by Christ’s love are deeply, even murderously, intolerant of criticism. While we may want to ascribe this to human nature, it is clear that such hatred draws considerable support from the Bible. How do I know this? The most disturbed of my correspondents always cite chapter and verse."

So out of all the religions who he criticized in the book, Christians are the ones who respond back with the most "hostile" and "hatred" while they cite chapter and verse. I looked at the New York Times best selling list at the store to see where this book was at, and it was #12 the week I was there. That means a lot of people are reading what he is writing here.

- Last week I am reading Rolling Stone magazine on-line and read an article about a major youth ministry that was profiled in the latest issue. In bold letters it quotes the leader of the Christian organization saying "I want an attacking church!". On another web site there are photos of this youth ministry organization's stage show where they show people in army fatigues running around the stage simulating war. I fully know that quotes can be taken out of context and I don't know much about this ministry - so I assume it is something about the spiritual battle metaphor they are using and focusing on that. But to the outside and people reading this in Rolling Stone magazine who don't understand that metaphor, it sure sounds very odd.

I can get depressed thinking about all this - but I normally then come out of the depressed emotions with energy. The energy returns as I so desire to be aggressive and prayerful about the mission to those outside the church in explaining and living out the gospel of Jesus and giving an apology and an apologetic about what the message of Jesus and Christianity is. So as sad as some of this is, it also brings me energy and hope to see it changed.

It also gives me hope that in the midst of an overall aging and non-growing church at large, that Christians recognizing this will see past minor doctrinal differences and denominational differences and instead of putting energy and emotion into fighting one another, we will link up together more. It will be horribly sad if in 30 years or 40 years the church of America is a tiny thing, and we are still fighting each other about whether one is a Calvinist or Arminian or whether you preach verse by verse or preach topically etc.

I do believe doctrine is very important, and I am going to post next on what I personally feel are the critical and essential doctrines to unite around that I believe the Scriptures make clear. But I do have hope that our hearts can unite over the gospel, the core doctrines of faith and the mission of Jesus. I do have hope that we won't be known as Christians who are described as "hateful" or to be seen to "cite verses" with anger as Sam Harris experienced ironically from only the Christians who sent him letters and emails. Followers of Jesus need to love and partner with each other all the more, especially in times like these.

 

Comments

[Genesis James]

9828161495314952d8defca2916900a9

[Sled Dog]

Yes, there is always something new emerging, and its good to have our finger of the pulse. And there is always something emerging, as much as some would like to deny it.

Emergent, as in "EMERGENT®" is what I was talking about.

[Dan]

Hi Ben,

Actually it is the word "emerging" I use (not emergent) which I used throughout the book, which simply means:

e·merg·ing (ĭ-mûr'jĭng)
adj. Newly formed or just coming into prominence; coming to the surface

I use that word to describe what is currently happening around us and changing around us in our culture.

Looking forward to hearing what you think as you go through it.

Dan

[Sled Dog]

I resonate much more with the word "missional" than the word "emergent". Missional seems focused, while emergent is ending up meaning a multitude of things.

[Ben Lemery]

Hi Dan,

An interesting post to my question, thanks for answering. I am on Chapter 4 of your book right now. I will give you a better feel for my own feelings when I get through the whole thing.

The funny thing is, I am not a proponent for much of what the emergent movement is doing and with most of it I downright disagree. However, the first two chapters of your book called me out on many of my own securities that I hold within the church and how I have created a Christian bubble. I wish that instead of adding "emergent culture" to everything you were writing that you would have instead just pointed out that this is how we are called to evangelize period. The one area that I am not really on the same plain with you at yet is the idea that we just talk, talk, talk to people and we don't really go for a conclusion at some point. Sometimes we are called be to be the sower, the waterer or the harvester and I haven't seen that differential in your book yet. But, maybe I will get there.

The main point is, I wish that the word "emergent" hadn't been in the title or in the book because I believe this book could have been far reaching within the entire book. I used the beginning of Chapter 2 for my Bible study and then opened it up to dialouge about Christian vs. NonChristian friendships, I will write you more about what was talked about there in a further post.

It is interesting having a public dialouge on your comment page. Thanks, Ben.

[Elizabeth Chapin]

Dan, along with "love your enemies", Jesus commanded us to "love one another" and declared that if we love each other, everyone will know that we are Jesus' disciples. When asked what are the greatest commandments - Jesus raised love above them all. I wonder how others would view us differently if as followers of Jesus we loved as passionately and consistently as He did?

I love you, brother, and thank God for you and for all you say and do. I know that there are many people who have seen God because of your love. Your book is next on my list... right after Sex God ;-)

[Dan]

Fred,

of course you can!

Dan

[Fred]

Good thoughts. Can I put a link to this on my blog?

[Dan]

"Your pal Kristin", Kristin....

thank you so much (seriously) for your beautiful words you posted here and it is likewise a total honor to serve besides you and I will try to keep my stereo down when I am in the office.

Danny

[Dan]

Hi Ben!

Thanks for posting and very good question... I think what I am talking about with loving others, isn't the times when Paul confronted the sorceress - i believe you are talking about Acts 16 where she was following them around and taunting them and disturbing them to the point he directly confronted the evil spirit in her. I believe there are certainly times when we need to specifically make strong calling out and rebuking someone.

I talk in the book (pages 104-106) about the importance of talking about sin and repentance - but I also talk there the difference of judging those inside the church vs. outside the church and talk about how God will "judge" those outside the church (1 Cor. 5:12-13), and we are to hold accountable those inside the church.

When I talk about love and Jesus, from reading the gospels we see Him being the harshest not with those who weren't following God or religious, but He was harshest with the religious hyprocrites and legalists. Jesus did confront evil spirits. But we see Him demonstrating love, where He said to LOVE your enemies (matthew 5:44), forgive each other, love one another, and even on the cross He said "forgive them for they know not what they do". But I do talk about the balance where "I also think, soberly, of the Jesus who will one day come again to judge the living and the dead. Jesus is our friend and the friend of sinners, but He also is a righteous judge who will hold us all accountable one day for how we lived our lives. We must have a balanced view of Jesus, being careful not to swing to one extreme or the other."(page 57).

So I stress that at the same time Jesus is loving and He teaches us to love even our enemies, He will judge evil. There are strong words about His judging evil. But He teaches us to have compassionate hearts.

In the premise of book you are reading, I am talking about those outside the church who have interest in Jesus, but have had negative experiences with Christians. So I am specifically writing there about those outside the church. The point I make, is that they aren't primarily stumbling at the gospel. Most haven't heard the gospel - but sadly, they stumble at the negative attitudes and way Christians and the church comes across - not the gospel. I know the gospel is a stumbling block, but they often never hear the gospel because we get in the way with our attitudes and negativity of how we approach things. So that is the love I am trying to talk about - being loving so people get to hear and experience the gospel. It is the Spirit who does it all through us, but I hope we can be positive salt and light and not negative and judging.

Let me know if this helps any,

Dan

[Ben Lemery]

Hi Dan,

I am currently reading your book "They like Jesus but not the church." So I thought, what they hey, he is an emergent guy, I am sure he has a blog and you do not dissapoint.

So, I read your blog. One thing that I wish you put a little more definition to is how you view Christ's love because if the disciples were operating out of the same Holy Spirit that Christ was, when Paul rebuked the sorceress and plainly spoke at Mars Hill, I am sure that it wasn't a time of "let's sit down and have some tea", but instead a time of vigourous dialouge with Paul winning some to the Lord.

I think that we take Jesus from the Gospels and we make Him this, love, love, love person but we forget to add on that love can come in chastisement also. So, could you define how you view Christ's love for me because I only see one increment of it being spoken about within emergent dialouge and that is very dissapointing.

All the way from Michigan I write this and in a year, I will be in your city to live, oh my.

[Ken]

Great post Dan! I really enjoyed your conference at George Fox. Hope to see you again soon.

[sean]

Let's. I sent an email.

[Eric Z.]

Hey Dan,
Read that Rolling Stone article too. As someone who went to Aquire the Fire growing up, I can tell you that the article was pretty fair. Scary, but fair. Just thought I'd add some credibility to the article.

[Mark]

My heart is saddened with you Dan as I see these kinds of things unfold.

I cannot help but feel a collective shame for our brothers and sisters who are sending such "hate mail" in the direction of Sam Harris.

My question is: "How do we get in contact with Harris as a way of apologizing, and in some way expressing the shame we feel as Christians for those who do not properly represent the gospel?"

Perhaps the vicious verbal assault can be counteractive be an olive branch on our part.

Grace must follow injustice. And we must also pray for those lashing out with such arrogance and anger.

[your pal kristin]

i am so proud to serve alongside you, dan.

your heart, displayed so well in this post, is so so so important to the vision of this crazy church thing we go going here and we wouldnt be what we are without you. its crazy cause everything you are posting about is much of what we have all been discussing of late in my little friendship groups.

my heart is happy to know you and have an office right next to yours

[Paige]

we need to remember to explain certain Christian ideas ("i'm a soldier in God's army" kind of thing).
That article in Rolling Stone really freaked me out...

[Jonny Raine]

To add another global aspect, the situation in Wales is probably 20/30 years down the line from the US.

I was preaching in a small Presbyterian church in the Welsh Valleys about a month ago. I was directed to the 'vestry' to pray with an elder before the service and before we prayed he was telling me how the church had gone from 300/400 strong now down to 30 or so. He and most of the members just seemed discouraged and were as if they'd given up hope.

When I came out to do the service, there were 10/15 kids and young people sat in the crowd. I thought if they don't get over this 'depression' of looking to the past then they're gonna lose these kids too and besides 15 kids and 30 members is a large number in the valleys, they should really look to the encouragements they have. They even have a Pastor, even though he is shared between four churches.

This is such a typical picture of Welsh churches, discouraged and looking to the past. Let it serve as a warning to the US, don't become like us. Don't look just to Christ’s past accomplishments, but look to what Christ can do even with your plateau-ing church and its Gospel potential!

[Dan]

sean,

yes, the great whites have scared me away.... but it is josh fox who you can surf with.... i haven't been on a board in 15 years. but i surely would hang out with you at Perg's or somewhere if you would like to sometime. it would be fun to hear what you are doing etc.

Dan

[Friar_Tuck]

I love how you echo what so many of us feel.

Anyone who has spent their lives in small churches know that there are a lot of people that come in and out of churches looking to find the church to find the next bigger cool mousetrap.

Part of what we need to teach people is to find a church where you can do kingdom work, instead of simply watching kingdom work being done.

[sean]

I started to read the Harris' book, probably at that same bookstore. After reading halfway through I put it down. He makes some great points, but his hermeneutic isn’t that great; he needs some contextual help. However, I don’t doubt he’s smarter than me, but he could benefit from reading: How to Read the Bible for all it’s Worth.

Are you surprised Christians comprised the largest group of faith-based people who wrote him? I wonder who would write him back if he lived and published his book “End of Faith…” from India, or Iran? It doesn’t surprise me that living in a country where “80%” of the population is Christian he would get such a response. Even though most “Christians” are weekend warriors, there is still a good deal of legalists out there setting people right.

Jason thanks for the Newsweek article. Both of them present wonderful arguments & Rick doesn’t shy away from Biblical truths. Likewise, he doesn’t belittle Sam’s beliefs; he disagrees in good form.

Dan, seriously, let me take you surfing. I promise, if Whitey comes up from the great deep to check out your legs, you won’t even know what happened. You’ll just wake up standing before Jesus, which will be fun.

[Sled Dog]

My wife and daughter just got back from a mission trip to New Orleans. They said that it was the demonstrations of love that opened up the ears of those they interacted with. Love is the oil that lubricates the gospel. They were able to share with so many people. My wife was blown away at the receptivity. Much of the reason for this is the fact that most people in NO believe the government has failed, but that the Christian church has been highly impactful in the rebuilding effort. Christians, by compassion and conduct, are gaining opportunities to be heard.

[Jason Pauli]

Newsweek has an AWESOME debate between Sam Harris and Rick Warren:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17889148/site/newsweek/

And this article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17889147/site/newsweek/

At the end of the debate Sam admits to having faith. It's in science of course but it's the "faith" that he criticizes others for placing in things like a god.

Great comments from Sam in his book. Of course dehumanizing people for their beliefs comes from more that just one belief system.

[blogpastor]

Thanks for this post. As a pastor in Singapore, I can relate to a few things: the transfer growth in megachurches, and the percentage of Christians in the population census remaining at the same level. The church needs to know where to cast the nets, for we have been working hard all night!

[shane kingery]

i can't really say that i blame sam for the conclusion that he's come to. because we use a living language, christ-like and christian are no longer synonymous and we seem to be advocating a regime instead of loving like jesus.

it makes my heart heavy when i feel the weight of this task before me - the gravity of knowing that changing the shape of church and perception of christianity begins with one attitude at a time; a seemingly insurmountable task.

[Amy]

Hey Dan,

What an awesome and timely post!

Yesterday my husband and I were discussing my newfound desire to attend church again (I'm new mom to a one-year-old daughter, so this past year I had stopped attending), as well as to attend Vintage Faith in particular (I've only been twice thus far). He said:

"I'm not sure I like having a wife who goes to church."

It's a long story, but the short blog-comment version is that I'm "feeling it" right now and he just isn't. To him church is a chore, and a long string of uncomfortable, socially-awkward moments, like "meet & greet." He just cannot see the point. And he certainly can't see the joy, or the desire to worship and fellowship.

I love that what you're doing is all about connecting my husband (and others like him) to Christ. Thank you!

~Amy

[Andy]

a great wake up call Dan, on a more global perspective, here in Australia we see the same trends, although we are probably about 5-10 years ahead in our decline...

The other issue is that our churches seem to look to those "mega-churches" in the US for the way forward... yet that is actually the way back!

keep up some great posts Mate (hope you can make it downunder sometime)

[Nate]

Thanks, Dan. Keep the faith.