Willow Creek Shift Conference

I am quite thrilled to be back at Willow Creek Community Church for their Shift Conference that started yesterday. I will blog later about my history with Willow, but it was at the very first youth ministry conference they had here which I went to and God used it tremendously in my life and Bo Boshers in my life and ministry which has carried through to this day in major ways, which I will explain later.

I am the main session speaker tomorrow and today I am leading/teaching a 3.5 hour Point Leaders session today called "Theology and Youth Ministry".I will be walking through how as youth leaders we need to be aware of how we do teach theology in so many ways whether intentionally or unintentionally - from how we use words such as "worship" and "church" to how we even set up a room when we meet. I will be stressing why I feel it is so important it is for youth leaders to be thinking theologically about everything we do, and looking at history of theological patterns of the past. I will bring up some of the key theological issues that I believe we need to be preparing youth for today that they will be forced to be thinking through after they graduate such as: how they define the gospel,  the trustworthiness of Scripture, how they define "church", homosexuality and sexuality in general, the role of men and women in the church, religious pluralism etc. I think the issue of social justice has been prominent here so far, so I won't spend time on that for this. But that is obviously important too and I will talk about the need for both orthodoxy and orthopraxy.

A lot of this will stem from how I was a youth pastor for many years then shifted to college and young adult leader for many years - all in the same church and town so I got to see what were some patterns of issues that I wished we addressed and cultural questions that arose post-high school. So that will be later today.

Yesterday I got to meet up with Brian McLaren and we chatted about things emerging and emergent and how things are going and about some questions about criticisms and all types of things. I get to hang out today with Scot McKnight today too which I look forward to. I have been talking to Scot often and he is becoming a sort of guru-theologian to me. One of the ultra-joys of being at conferences is getting to hang out with other people and learn and chat and build friendships.

I do miss Becky, Katie and Claire - and I always bring a photo of them and put it next to my bed on the nightstand like here in the hotel I am in now. I look forward to when Katie and Claire get old enough to travel with me when I go on trips like this. And I do miss our church and Josh and the staff, although I guess not in the same way to where I put Josh's photo by my bed too.

Comments

[mommy]

do you put up my photo?

[Alison]

That's exactly what I'm getting at, Don. Wesley said it best: "In essentials, unity, in nonessentials, liberty, in all things, charity". I'm in full agreement with what you've said. This discussion has been fun.

[Bernie]

Hey, I appreciate Mr. Kimball's response and agree with the 2nd paragraph of his latest post (on the Basics of Christianity - Virgin Birth, Life, Death, Resurrection, Return).

From the tone of the feedback, my response is, it is not the first time I have been called a Pharisee, in essence! :>)

When only 6% of College kids can say for certain they are going to Heaven. When places like Wheaton College have backed away from the Six Day Creation. When so-called Evangelicals think they can believe in Evolution and Christ...Lakewood/Saddleback and Willow, we have a problem!!

It is hard for a dummy like me, who was radically saved out of a party life style, to understand why the now increasing majority of influential "Christian leaders" think God did not mean what He says.

Don't need a book on that. I just need the Bible and Give me Jesus. I was at a Natalie Grant concert last year when she almost screamed that she "was sick and tired of people who say if you don't repent, you go to hell!" Well, if you don't repent, you are going to hell!! Folks! She is the fruit of modern Christianity. Listen to contemporary christian radio, or watch some of these artists talk about why the Name of Jesus is not prominent in their music...they will say "it is implied"...except for Casting Crowns and Third Day or others.

So as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD and believe every single word - LITERALLY - in all 66 Books! But then, I am also a simpleton.

Hey Dan, I am friends with a couple from church, whose sons and their wives went to SHIFT. She is worried about them reading books by your friend Brian!! But that is another story!! God bless you and yours and have a great week!
ps...did not mean to start anything here...just happened upon this blog accidentally to see what was going on at SHIFT, since our friend said her kids were there! WOW!!

[donsands]

"It's important for us to not succumb to the idea (as Bernie seemed to) that any one interpretation of sacred matters is the "right" one"

How about the truth that Jesus was born of a virgin, and that Christ died for the sins of His people, and three days later he rose from the dead, and He ascended into heaven, where He is Lord of lords and has all authority, because He is God the Son, who sits at the right hand of His Father.

Does this have a lot of different interpretations?

I guess what I am saying is the Bible is crystal clear on the essential truths of the Church. If you are talking about non-essential, such as this particular verse being interpreted, then I agree with you. And that we as God's people don't have every truth nailed down, but there is such a thing as Orthodoxy in the Body of Christ, and there is Heresy as well, and we need to stay within the boundaries of Orthodoxy, for if we go out from these foundational truths, then it prove that we were not of the truth. 1 John 2:19

Have a wonderful Lord's Day.

[Alison]

Don--

Good morning.

What I was doing was taking poetic license with the theological notion that while God has revealed certain things to us, He alone is the final arbiter of the truth, and we don't know everything.

That remark, placed back into its context, was aimed specifically at someone else, whose comment seemed to pass him off as some sort of authority on who has the truth and who doesn't.

The fact is, we're all fallible human beings, and no one person, church, denomination or movement will ever have a full grasp on all aspects of Truth. What we can do, however, is trust what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us through the Scripture, and deeply listen to each other's explorations and questions of the faith. It's important for us to not succumb to the idea (as Bernie seemed to) that any one interpretation of sacred matters is the "right" one, and any other interpretation is a heresy worthy of a Divine Upchuck. (Sorry for the crassness of that image, but it's playing off of the passage that he (mis?)quoted.)

[donsands]

"which, incidentally, belongs to the Holy Trinity alone" -Alison

Could I ask what you actually mean by this? I'm not sure.

I love the truth, and rejoice in all the truth of the Holy Scriptures. It surely belongs to me, a child of God, as it does the Church, God's beloved people.

Just wondering. Thanks.

And have a great Lord's day.

[Alison]

Bernie--

I sense a deep spirit of judgmentalism in you. Something about your post (its vituperativeness, mainly) tips me off that you're not so much concerned about matters of ultimate Truth (which, incidentally, belongs to the Holy Trinity alone), than you are about being "right".

I don't mean to judge you by any means. Please do not misconstrue what I just said. Jesus' concern in that passage, and I might not "get it" fully, was about the fact that the Laodicean church had become complacent, and forgotten their dependence on Him for their spiritual sustenance. This wasn't about orthodoxy, so to say it was, grossly misuses the passage in question.

[Dan]

Hi Bernie!

Yes, we are for real. Very real and very much following after Jesus.

Dan

[Bernie]

Are you guys all for real?
McLaren has, in essence, denied the Exclusivity of Christ in "A Generous Orthodoxy". You can whitewash this WillowCreek doubletalk as much as you want, but remember one thing - we are all accountable to a Holy God on His Day of Judgment.
Go back and read Revelation 3:15-16..in whatever paraphrase you use. By the way, the Greek word KING JESUS uses for spew or vomit....is actually stronger...it actually means a violent gutteral upchuck from deep inside!!
So some friendly free advice, for what it is worth - Be very careful of what emerges out of your stay here on earth, as you stand before Him!
I came across this site by accident, while searching for something about WC...interesting!

[Scott Childress]

wow, i wish i were there...

so many events - so little time...

i wonder dan, how your teaching on how we need to "be thinking theologically about everything we do" relates to some of the issues raised by folks like Frank Viola.

how are we to be intentional in our gatherings while realizing the 'pagan' origins of some of our practices? After reading your "emerging worship" book and then reading "pagan christianity" i almost feel torn in two directions. (which is how i normally feel anyway, so...)

are any of the discussions at Shift being recorded...i would love to hear your thoughts.

[gavin]

many blessings & prayers for your sharing tomorrow dan. i will be there and look forward to hearing what you have to say. probably will take some pictures, so make sure the hair is in proper form.

shalom, -gavin

[gavin]

many blessings & prayers for your sharing tomorrow dan. i will be there and look forward to hearing what you have to say. probably will take some pictures, so make sure the hair is in proper form.

shalom, -gavin

[donsands]

Thanks Dan. One of my best friends is a friend of Brian, Dave Shive, he's a prof @ Washington Bible College.
But we have both been concerned about the way his theology has turned.

May we all be attentive to the voice of Jesus Christ, and "every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God".

"Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, ... serving the Lord". Rom. 12:9-11

[Dan]

Hi Don!

Brian and I caught on on our families and what we each are doing ministry-wise and then talked about some distinctions of emerging and emergent etc. So it was great to have a chat with him.

Dan

[Dan]

Hey Rick,

Oh you are raising such excellent points. It is the parents who need to be included in this. And I fully believe that teenagers need to understand what "church" is and that youth ministry is part of a church and how important it is to be part of a church after they graduate. You could have taught today with me on these things! Great points.

Dan

[Dan]

Bennett --

My schedule is posted on this blog if you scroll down and see it on the left.

Dan

[donsands]

"Yesterday I got to meet up with Brian McLaren and we chatted about things emerging and emergent and how things are going and about some questions about criticisms and all types of things."

Did you discuss his view that homosexual behavior is complicated, and perhaps is not a sin?

I know Brian said, we need to wait 5-10 years and then take another look at homosexual behavior.

For me, a statement like this is very telling.

It's a very serious thing, and we need to understand where teachers are on this sin.

[Thomas Mulhern]

cant wait for tomorrow's session with you. Brian, Mark, and Shane were all awesome yesterday.

this is a great conference and I think that you are going to add a lot to it. See you tomorrow man!

[Bennett]

I think you should post your speaking schedule on here somewhere. It answers the question, "Where in the world is Danny?"

[Rick]

Dan-
you wrote:
"...key theological issues I believe we need to be preparing youth for today that they will be forced to be thinking through after they graduate such as: how they define the gospel, the trustworthiness of Scripture, how they define "church", homosexuality and sexuality in general, the role of men and women in the church, religious pluralism etc."
Amen.
They need to be trained to start thinking like a "worshipping community of missional theologians" now- before they graduate.
I also think parents need to be trained to help in that area, and not just leave it to the church/youth pastor to do all the training.
Finally, the students need to go ahead and start thinking (especially the seniors) about what Christian communities they might be able to be a part of after graduation.